[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to the River Church podcast.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: We're all about bringing the life, hope and love of Jesus to everyone around us. For more information, check out our
[email protected].
[00:00:15] Speaker A: We've got here Andy Johnson, who's going to bring the Word to us just by way of introduction. Andy is the leader of King's Community Church down in Southampton, a thriving big church. He's also part of the strategy team for Catalyst. If you saw the email, we're part of Catalyst and New Frontiers, and he might mention a bit of that. But he's also someone that served internationally, both in Europe, Albania, Bulgaria. That's the one. Okay. Bulgaria, across Africa, in Tanzania, in South Asia as well in Pakistan and many countries that I probably don't know about.
And we've really invited him to talk to us about the apostolic.
[00:00:57] Speaker C: He.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: He's a leader and he's a great encourager to us as a leadership team and a great friend. So why don't you welcome Andy up.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Just before I speak, I just want to introduce Janet, my wonderful wife. So Janet co leads the pastoral team at King's Community Church and also she's responsible for leading into prayer. So I've just asked her to share what she really feels God's been putting on her heart, because I really feel like God is steering the church in the UK to pray.
[00:01:35] Speaker C: Amen.
It's so good to be here. And God is doing something, isn't he? Across our land. At the moment, you're probably living with the term that we've heard about, you know, the quiet revival and what God is doing. Just flicked the news on south today. I think it was last week or just the week before.
And they talked about on this BBC News, 93 people getting baptized in Bournemouth. I don't know if you saw that churches got together and they baptized. 93, I think people in the sea, you know, giving, sharing testimony of what was happening. Incredible stuff. But what I want to share with you, particularly today, what I feel prophetically is about six months ago, nine months ago, I felt God gave me a picture when I was in that prayer meeting. And it was of a very barren landscape. And right across this barren landscape, there were just little embers of smouldering fires.
And I felt like God say, the wind of God is coming. The wind of God is coming. It's going to blow across these smoldering embers and there are going to be big fires. And alongside that I was listening to or reading the story of Elijah praying for rain. And do you remember he sees A little cloud of rain, a little cloud in the sky. And when he sees that cloud, he says to Ahab, get in your chariot and run quickly, because the rain is coming. And what really interests me is when. What does Elijah do? He doesn't run for cover. He goes back up the mountain, he puts his head between his knees and he prays to God. And I feel that those two pictures link together. I feel that we are sensing across our nation that there is a fresh move of God. People, like we've been hearing this morning, people are inquiring and asking. And I feel that God is saying to us, this is the time to pray. This is not the time to run for safety. This is not the time to get busy, as we're very good at doing in churches. This is the time to pray. And I feel like there's a call on us individually to pray, but I feel that there is a call on us corporately as churches to pray and to see what God is going to do in our day. I don't know if you follow what Pete Gregg is saying at the moment. You know, he's done some amazing little podcasts, but. But what he says is actually, far be it from us not to host this move. Well, that we lose what God is doing, and the onus is on us. Let's seek God. Let's seek God individually. Let's seek God together as churches. Let's believe God for a mighty move across our nation. I can feel it, can't you? I can feel it in the air. You know, it's whether it's that cloud in the sky, whether it's those burning embers, but the wind of God is coming, and we want to see what God is going to do. Amen. Amen.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Wonderful. I just want to echo my thanks to the worship team. Thank you, Debbie, for leading us so wonderfully. I don't know the names of the rest of the worship team. I only know Debbie. But if you're in the worship team this morning, thank you so much for leading us so well into God's presence. Not sure about the drummer's spur shirt, but we'll forgive that. We'll forgive that.
I am one of the least talented musical people you'll ever meet. So we had a leaders gathering recently, and we had Terry Virgo, who sort of founded New Frontiers many years ago. He was with us and just giving us what was on his heart, and he was talking about the importance. When you spend time with God daily, don't just put worship music on, just sing along and rejoice and let God hear your voice. So the following day, I'm putting that into practice. Now, Janet, when she has her worship time, she spends her time in the conservatory, and I have a little chair in one of the bedrooms, and I shut the door because my voice isn't great, I have to say. Anyway, I was like three minutes in, and Janet came rushing and said, oh, what is that terrible noise? Because she was hearing the worship song on my.
On YouTube. But over the top of that, she was hearing my dulcet tones to Jesus. So there we are.
Also, the last time I was with you, I arrived and I suddenly said to Janet, where's my bag? And I don't know whether if you were here, then I'd actually forgotten my bag, forgotten my Bible, forgot in my preaching notes. And I spent the whole of the worship time just scribbling out from memory what I felt God had given me on my heart. Whereas this morning I was free to worship, which is wonderful. I'd love us to stand.
I never do this at home, but I'm going to do it this morning. Let's stand. And I'm going to read to you a passage that I'll keep coming back to. It's Matthew, chapter 28. When we stand, we. When God's word is being read together, we're just saying, lord, I want to receive, and I'm submitting myself to the authority of the word of God.
So Matthew 28:18. Jesus came and he told his disciples, I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in. In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I've given you. And be sure of this, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Amen. You can be seated.
There's a lot of water under the bridge. Since I was last with you, Since I was last with you, you have renamed, rebranded, you've gone into two sides. River Church expresses something of what God is doing in this place. River. Not just because you happen to be near the Thames, but because the river of God flows from this place.
Ezekiel 47 tells us that the river of God starts small from the temple, but it gets bigger and deeper and wider as it flows from the presence of God to every nation in the earth. God, as we've already heard, is on the move.
And that here at River Church, that's expressed both in Dartford and in Gravesend.
We at King's Community Church. We've been busy too. We've been planting two churches since I was last here. One in the leafy New Forest where everyone is terribly nice and middle class, and then one in a state called Weston, which is the most socially deprived area of of the city of Southampton. And both of them are thriving. I think Weston had a baptism service just the other week and they baptized a lady from the local estate and they topped 100 for the first time. And we're so excited about that. And as Janet said, we're living in a context where people are talking about this quiet revival, this spiritual thirst that is growing, especially amongst Gen Z. I say Gen Z, I can't say Gen Z. I'm not American people coming to church and coming to know Jesus from completely unchurched backgrounds. So give you a couple of examples. We baptized someone a couple of months back and she was walking past our church building one Sunday morning. She spent four years investigating the claims of Islam. But she come to the place where she thought, I cannot be a Muslim because I cannot worship a God who fundamentally at root is not a God of love. And as she was walking past, we just finished the meeting, car was coming out and the driver of the car smiled at her and her friend. She said, I'm going to go next week. And she came, she got baptized. She came to know Jesus or I'll tell you a story of a guy called Dan. Last week, Janet and I run our Explore Church, which is our sort of introduction to KCC.
So we were doing a course throughout. 20 people never met Dan before. He's obviously been coming a few months, but I'd never personally met.
And he said I was a complete atheist.
I had rejected the existence of God, but I decided to investigate. So I bought a Bible. I read the Bible from beginning to end and by the end of it I was utterly convinced that everything the Bible said was true and that Jesus was real and he died for me. And. And he'd risen again. But he said I had no background in church so I had to make a decision whether I was going to be a Catholic, a Protestant or Orthodox. And he said, I came to kcc, that was my first church and I'm staying here and I want to get baptized. Isn't God amazing?
And as a local church, we are seeing God do amazing things and he's doing it right across our family of churches.
Catalyst.
As Ian said, I have the privilege of leading a Catalyst Hub, which is a group of churches within Catalyst that work together on mission.
And I'LL talk a bit more about that in a moment.
So there's 10 churches in the UK that I'm responsible for, which is not many, but Hampshire, Sussex, Kent, Bedfordshire. But as a hub, we are responsible for between about 500 and 600 churches in places like Pakistan, Somalia, South Sudan, Tanzania, Mozambique, Malawi, Bulgaria.
In Pakistan, for example, working with a network of about 50 house churches. And it's one of the most exciting things I've ever been involved in. When I go to Pakistan, I'm followed for the whole week by armed guards bearing Kalashnikov rifles to keep me safe. And these Kalashnikovs look pretty impressive.
And when I meet the pastors, you suddenly realize they are playing for pretty high stakes. They have their churches burned down. They are a persecuted minority, but they are so faithful in preaching the gospel and planting churches.
And Simon Fry, who leads the church in Hailsham that I used to lead up till 10 years ago, he is working particularly in South Sudan and amongst the Somali believers. And the Somali pastors are people of incredible courage. They face imprisonment, they face death threats. I know that Ian and Debbie have spent time with the Somali believers, with Simon and Anna, and it's an incredible privilege to partner together in serving brothers and sisters who are amongst the most persecuted followers of Jesus across the earth. And if you look on the Catalyst website, I don't know if you've ever Googled Catalyst Network, you'll see the Catalyst website there and you'll find a strap line that says, this Catalyst is an apostolic movement starting and strengthening churches that multiply disciples to see God's kingdom fill the earth. So I wanted to take some time this morning to unpack that from the Bible. And first of all, we need to define what we mean by apostolic. The apostolic is all about being on mission together.
It's a Greek word which simply means sent. 1.
When I was growing up in church in the 1960s and early 70s, I was part of a quite traditional church in Liverpool, and they sent missionaries all over the world and they were often preaching the gospel. The trouble was that the model that they had of sending people on mission, I don't think was a particularly biblical one, because the church itself perhaps gave a bit of money and occasionally prayed for the people they had sent. But it was not an apostolic community caught up in apostolic ministry and mission together.
So what does it mean to be an apostolic community? The first thing we need to see is that we need to put mission front and center of who we are. Why? Because God is a God of mission. God is on Mission. And that is so central to the whole Bible narrative from Genesis to Revelation. God's big story is that he is on mission to rescue and redeem the whole cosmos. We're told this in 2 Corinthians 5, verse 19. God was in Christ, reconciling the world, reconciling the cosmos to himself.
Those of us who are British or European culturally tend to be very individualistic in our view of why Jesus came. And of course, there's an individual element.
Galatians, Paul says, the Son of God loved me and he gave himself for me. There's always a personal element to the gospel. But God is on a global mission much, much bigger than what he's doing in my life. He's reconciling the whole cosmos. He's bringing the whole of the universe under the authority of the Lord Jesus. We're told in Ephesians, God's good plan is that at the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ. Everything in. In heaven and in earth.
And when you look at the whole Bible narrative from Genesis to Revelation, the story starts in a garden in the Garden of Eden, and it finishes in Revelation 21 with a city. The Garden of Eden was the place where God dwelt.
And the garden was full of. Of his presence. And when God created the world, there was no sin to spoil it.
Outside the garden, however, there was a huge expanse of planet where God's rule and good governance was not yet fully seen. It was Adam and Eve's responsibility to bring the rule of God through biological reproduction. God says to Adam and Eve, be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and govern it. Bring my rule across the world. But of course, Adam and Eve mess up. They get cast out of the garden. But God remains steadfast in his commitment to mission. He takes a man called Abraham and he promises that that through Abraham's descendant.
Notice descendant, singular, not plural. He will bless the whole world. So Galatians 3 says this. Now, the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say offsprings referring to many, but referring to one, to your offspring who is Christ.
So God is going to bless the whole world through the offspring of Abraham through Jesus.
And then of course, we get to the era of the church and we get to the passage that I read earlier. Jesus then catches us up in his global mission to reach every nation. All authority is given by Jesus to us as his people to go and make disciples. So in Genesis, God looks to bring his rule and reign through biological reproduction. Adam and Eve were commanded to have babies. In the era of the church, God's command is spiritual reproduction to make disciples.
I think last time I was with you, I had no grandchildren.
In the years between now and then, my children have multiplied. We now have six grandchildren aged between. We've got a six year old, a five year old, a three year old, a three year old,. A one year old and a one year old. It is chaos at Christmas.
And you know what? Grandchildren are incredible joy bringers.
But spiritual reproduction is even better because through making disciples, we are going to see the rule and reign of Jesus fill the earth.
Let me try and illustrate that through a couple of New Testament books. Janet and I have just been on holiday and when we go on holiday, we both like to read fiction. But Janet reads more fiction than me. Cause I read sort of theology and politics and history. And when you read a fiction book, it just dives straight in with the story.
But when you read a politics book or a history book or a theology book, it often has a preface.
And the preface is the moment where the author tells you what his or her intentions are in the book. This is what I'm trying to do now. In the ancient world, authors did not write a preface. They bookended the beginning and the end of their writing.
And they put a green flag at the start. This is what this book is all going to be about. And a red flag at the end. I'm finishing now. Can you see that I have done exactly what I said at the start and I've been true to my overarching aim in the whole book.
So in the book of Acts, for example, written by Luke, who is a friend of Paul, the overarching theme is the kingdom of God. Extending the kingdom, extending the rule and reign of Jesus.
So Acts 1:3, during the 40 days after he suffered and died, he appeared. He appeared to the apostles from time to time. And he proved to them in many ways he was actually alive. And he talked to them about the kingdom of God.
So just hold onto that phrase, the kingdom of God.
Then look at the very end of the story. For the next two years, Paul lived in Rome at his own expense. He welcomed all who visited him, boldly proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ. And no one tried to stop him. So Luke is telling us at the beginning and the end of this history of the early Church, how the kingdom has gone from Jerusalem where the church was birthed, all the way around the Roman Empire and. And it's ended up in Rome. The kingdom has extended across the whole of the Roman Empire.
And just look at what Paul does in the book of Romans. He does something very similar.
Through Christ, God has given us the privilege and authority as apostles to tell Gentiles everywhere what God has done for them so so that they will believe and obey him, bringing glory to his name.
Then Romans 16:26. But now, as the prophets foretold and as the eternal God has commanded, this message is made known to all Gentiles everywhere so that they too might believe and obey him.
So gentiles everywhere, Romans 1:5, gentiles everywhere, Romans 16:26. This gospel, this good news about the life, death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus is for the whole world, says the Apostle Paul.
And I want us to focus particularly on apostolic ministry as a gift for from the Lord Jesus to his church. We're told in Ephesians 4 that Jesus, when he ascended, gave gifts, gave leadership gifts to his church.
And those gifts are apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers not to do everything but to equip the church for works of service to build up the body of Christ.
So what do apostles do? Well, first of all, apostles plant churches. That was true in Paul's day, it's still true today. So we as a family of churches are living with a vision to train a thousand church planters in our movement by 2030.
That's a great aim.
And in some parts of the world, particularly in parts of Africa where I'm involved, we are seeing huge numbers of churches planted in the uk. It's tougher going but we are committed to extending the kingdom of God through planting local churches. Whether it's completely self governing local churches like we've done in the New Forest and in Western, or whether it's the slightly different model that you've gone for here at River Church where you're one church but two different sites, by going to gravesend, you are looking to extend the kingdom. You are on mission as a local church.
Secondly, apostles lay doctrinal foundations in local churches. We live in a world where truth is constantly relativized. People say things like this, well thank you for what you've shared. That may be true for you, but it's not true for, for me.
That's a nonsense statement. If something is true, it is true universally. And the first century apostles, when they went and they planted churches, those churches were established on the universal truths about Jesus in every church. His Godhead, his humanity, his, his virgin birth, his sinless life, his substitutionary death, his bodily resurrection, his ascension. To the Father and his future return as king of the whole cosmos. So when we plant churches today, it's really important that we establish these truths and relay them and teach them to every generation.
We take the apostolic truth of this book as outlined in the Scriptures and we teach truth. We teach universal truth, unchanging truth in an ever changing world.
And over the next 20 years, we are going to face huge challenges in this area. And we're already seeing challenges to biblical truth, particularly on the doctrine of man and human sexuality and stuff like that.
Next thing that apostles do is they care for churches.
Paul talks in 2 Corinthians 11 about his care of or his concern for all the churches. So the authority for the the pastoral care of River Church lies with the eldership team. And much of that work is delegated to small group leaders, et cetera. But elders have responsibility to care for the flock.
But on behalf of Catalyst, I have a responsibility to care for River Church. For many years, this church was cared for by David Devenish because Al and Jane had a long standing connection and friendship that dated back to their teenage years with David and Scylla. But a while ago, David asked me more and more to take responsibility for connecting with the elders. It's a responsibility I take very seriously.
So that's why I'm here this morning to serve you, because Jesus loves his church.
And I love the fact when you read the book of Revelation, you read those first three chapters, those seven letters to seven different churches, each of those letters that Jesus is writing to those churches, they're all different.
Every local church is unique and special. There isn't just a generic letter that Jesus sends to the churches in Turkey. Each one he cares for, he knows he loves. And God has got a particular calling over this local church.
Of course. Another thing that apostolic ministry does, it catches up churches in global mission.
The Apostle Paul writes the Book of Romans, his longest and best known letter to catch a church up in global mission. When we read the Book of Romans, we quickly focus the very dense theology in the book.
And that's great and it's a wonderful book theology, but actually the Book of Romans is first and foremost about mission because Paul lays an apostolic theology in order to say to this church in Rome that he's never visited. Here's what I believe.
So will you now partner with me, both those of you who are Jewish and those of you are Gentile in Rome to to reach completely unreached people in Spain?
What does it mean for River Church to be apostolic?
Well, I Think first and foremost it's about building a diverse every nation church.
The church in the UK is becoming more and more diverse, diverse. And that is something to celebrate and something that is prophetic to enable us to re evangelize our nation.
So prior to Covid, the church that I lead in Southampton was about 95% white British. We're now probably about 60% white British. We have now about 250 Nigerians and Ghanaians and Zimbabweans and a smattering of other nations, but about 250 Africans in the church. I often get the Ghanaians and Nigerians to compete against each other in serving me their best jollofee rice.
So put your hand up if you think Ghanaians make the best jollofee rice.
Put your hand up if you think Nigerians do.
I think the Nigerians have got it guys.
We also have about 100, 120 maybe Hong Kongers who've come to the UK over the last.
Do you know what? KCC is a much more challenging church for me to lead today than it was five or six years ago because all the while I'm having to lean in and learn about different cultures.
But you know what? It's a lot more fun and we are so much more spiritually rich because of the other nations that have joined us. And we can and should be a huge prophetic provocation to our communities.
I am so proud in a hope, a right sense of the diversity of our local church. I frequently tell our local MP that we are twice as diverse as as the rest of his constituency. And if he wants to see what diversity of racial harmony should look like, he needs to come to KCC on a Sunday morning.
But it's not about ticking diversity boxes. Have you read the end of the story?
It's a taste of heaven.
Because around the throne there's a people from every tribe and, and language and people group and nation worshiping Jesus. So when we worship as we did this morning as a multi ethnic congregation, we are anticipating the realities and certainties of heaven. What we did this morning was prophetic and it was powerful.
Next, being apostolic is about being caught up in, in our global family's apostolic mission. So for many years you as a church, through your involvement with David Devenish were involved in apostolic mission in the Russian speaking world.
Russia and Ukraine and I know that's Al and Jane have spent a lot of energy in that part of the world and that's been a huge blessing to the churches there.
And more recently, as I said earlier, You've got involved in other areas of the world. Ian has partnered with Simon Fry, serving the Somali churches of East Africa. And I want to commend Ian and Debbie for that. It's a tough part of the world.
So it's about building a diverse every nation church. It's about being caught up in global mission together. But let's earth it in the everyday now. It's about sharing Jesus at the school gate, at the office, with your next door neighbor, at the family fun day.
Remember, Apostolic mission isn't just going to the nations. Acts 1 starts in Jerusalem.
Your apostolic mission starts here in Dartford and in Gravesend. The reality is not all of us are going to go and do apostolic mission amongst the Somali diaspora. But Jesus says in Acts 18, you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, in Judea and Samaria and to the ends of of the earth.
And so like that member of KCC who was driving out of church smiled at a completely random stranger that she'd never met before. That was the beginning of a work of God in that girl's life as she walked past our church building that Sunday morning. Every single one of us can smile, turn at your neighbor and just give it a go. Go. Just smile at your neighbor.
Just means you need to exercise some muscles, you know, many years ago I was a schoolteacher and I was a housemaster in a very posh, very expensive boarding school. I don't count evangelism as one of my top spiritual gifts, but I had unprecedented opportunity for the gospel in that context because we lived in community.
So the school owned all the roads around where the school was based and we lived amongst our colleagues. So I worked with people that I lived with. The and all our kids went to school together. So it was really like living in a village. And it was a huge opportunity for the gospel. I saw a number of colleagues and friends and their spouses come to know Jesus. I think probably about 8 if I count them up.
And there was also a couple.
[00:38:25] Speaker C: On.
[00:38:25] Speaker B: Our very first Alpha course right back in the mid-1990s and they came to Faith in Jesus and they joined the church. We went on holiday with that family for about 10 years.
And you know, 30 years on, that couple are still walking with Jesus in the same church. And their three kids that were like 10, 8 and 4 when we first met them are all now leaders in local churches. Isn't that amazing that you can sow seeds for the gospel but 30 years later are still bearing fruit? And so my prayer for you, River Church, is that you will be the real deal. You will be the apostolic community that God is calling you to be. That, as Luke writes that you would see, it's all about the kingdom. It's all about the rule and reign of Jesus going from Dartford and Gravesend to the ends of the earth. And it's all about Gentiles everywhere receiving the good news of the Gospel. Can we stand love to pray for you?
[00:39:49] Speaker A: It.
