[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to the River Church podcast.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: We're all about bringing the life, hope and love of Jesus to everyone around us.
[00:00:07] Speaker C: For more information, check out our
[email protected].
[00:00:12] Speaker D: thank you. Thank you. It's great.
We doing okay?
Yeah.
I thought it was pretty interesting, a survey that tells us exactly what women want. I'm thinking of sharing the results with the men of this church.
It might be helpful.
Right, church. I had a nightmare, right? A genuine nightmare.
I remember it was a few years ago, and there was a snake in it. Ooh, we all know that's bad.
And it was coming towards me, and then I remember it slithering over my face.
That's horrible. So I just remember just feeling its weight. And then when I woke up, I could still feel it on me. So I'm freaking out. It's completely dark. I don't know what's going on. I'm trying to knock this thing off my face, and then I realize it's my own arm and it has gone dead.
It's just across my face.
Very weird.
Now, have you ever had a dream a little bit like that where your brain is making some weird connections in this subconscious world and strange things come out? Yeah.
Well, there's those dreams, and then there are proper dreams. There are even God dreams where God wants to speak to people and give them a vision of something about himself and even something about history in the future.
And that's where we're going today. We're going to be looking at Daniel 7.
So I would love you to grab your Bibles and turn to Daniel 7.
And I'm going to read most of the chapter, but then we're going to have a good old think about it, because it is crazy. All right? We're going to try and understand what it was that Daniel sees, what it might mean, and most importantly, what it means for your life. Now, you see, that is what this is all about.
We don't preach to give you knowledge because we're not trying to make you better at pub quizzes, all right? We are trying to understand what's in God's word so that visions don't just get understood, but they change us. Do you know what I mean?
So today we want to get personal.
By the end, it might even get a little bit uncomfortable, but it's going to be worth it, trust me.
Should we read the vision?
Yeah. Okay.
Right, there's quite a bit here. If I click in the wrong places, then just say cue, cue click again. All right? But if you've got it in front of you, we should be okay. So in the first year of Belshazzar, king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind. As he was lying in bed, he wrote down the substance of his dream. Daniel said, in my dream, at night, I looked, and there before me were four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. And. And four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.
The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. And I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a human being, and the mind of a human was given to it.
And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a bear.
It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And it was told, get up and eat your fill of flesh.
And after that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard, and on its back it had four wings like those of a bird.
This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule.
And after that, in my vision, at night, I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast, terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth. It crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. And it was different than all the former beasts. And it had 10 horns. You guys doing okay? Yeah. Okay. It's a bit frightening, isn't it?
While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them.
And three of the first horns were uprooted before it.
This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully and mercifully. There's a shift.
As I looked, thrones were set in place, and the ancient of days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow. The hair of his head was as white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. And thousands upon thousands attended him. And 10,000 times 10,000 stood before him. The court was seated and the books were opened.
Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words of the horn that was speaking.
And I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time. And in my vision, at night, I looked, and there before me was someone like the Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven. And he approached the ancient of days and was led into his presence. And he was given authority, glory and sovereign power. All nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away. And his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
I, Daniel, was troubled in spirit. And the visions that passed through my mind disturbed me.
You can imagine Daniel sitting in the corner with a hot towel around his head, almost weeping, can't you?
You might be feeling even nauseous today listening to this.
More nauseous than you normally do, listening to one of my preachers.
But that's what this can do to us.
But it's understandable though, right?
Because we were talking about stories about Daniel and his friends and nice banquets, weren't we? Things have shifted radically.
As soon as you get into the second half of Daniel, the style of writing has changed.
We're actually on something called apocalyptic literature.
And the word apocalypse literally means unveiling.
It's like a revelation. It's where the name of that final book in the Bible comes from.
God is pulling back the curtain to show the spiritual reality that's behind earthly events and also gives us an indication of where history is, is headed.
So it's super duper important that when we are faced with a style of writing change that we understand, maybe the way that we read it needs to change.
So just a few comments before we begin, if I may.
The purpose of apocalyptic literature is not to predict the end of the world.
We won't be doing that today.
Now, Jesus explicitly says that no one knows the day or the hour, yet in every single generation you will find somebody who God has spoken to and revealed when it's all going to happen. And normally you need to sell your house so you can be in the club, right?
It's a deception, it's a sham.
Don't listen to people that say that. Instead, the purpose of these writings are so that we can live faithfully as followers of Jesus until he comes back again.
But it also means that we've got to kind of approach it with some humility, remembering firstly, not every single detail is a code to crack.
And not everything is about 2026.
The dream had meaning for Daniel in his generation two and a half thousand years ago. And really that's where we must start if we're going to do this properly. And as we open Daniel 7, we're looking around at the rest of God's word to help us interpret what we're reading, that's kind of good biblical exegesis. You with me?
So that's what we're going to do now. I want to look at the really big picture so that we can kind of take in what we've just read, and then we're going to zoom into the detail and understand what does it mean for us today. Sound all right? Good.
Are you ready for the image?
Yeah.
There are two very different kingdoms in this book.
It took me ages to draw this.
On one side, what you've got is this beastly kingdom.
Four great beasts rising out of the sea, followed by horns and rulers, and they're all opposed to God.
And on the other side, you've got this totally different kingdom. God's kingdom. It's a heavenly kingdom and the ancient of days, where he's seated on his throne. The Son of Man also receives his everlasting kingdom.
And you can see rivers of fire cascading down from the throne. The court is assembled, judgment is given, and I just want us to notice more than anything else the contrasts.
Right, the beasts are raging, but God is seated.
Right. The beasts are boasting and blaspheming.
Well, God doesn't really have to say much.
Right. The beasts are destroying, but God is judging. And the beasts look unstoppable, but only God is unstoppable.
It's because the throne room is the real control room, and that is what God is trying to communicate to Daniel. Because Daniel, he's been overtaken and his people have been overtaken by the beast of Babylon.
The world kind of looks a little bit out of control, but God is saying, look, Daniel, however chaotic things start to look, I am never going to lose control of what I started.
The beasts are going to come and go. They're going to rise and fall. Their power is temporary.
But, hey, the Son of Man is going to receive a kingdom that is never going to be destroyed.
That's the big picture. You with me? Still?
Good. So should we get into some of the detail, then and understand it a bit more?
So who are the beasts? What a great question.
Well, the good news is we don't have to guess blindly, because if you look down onto verse 17, you can see Daniel's like, I want to know the interpretation. So we ask someone who's standing there, maybe an angel, and they say, look, the four great beasts are four kings that will rise up from the earth.
So who are the kings?
Now, we've got some decisions to make with our interpretation, but we said we would Start with scripture. And who remembers this from Daniel 2?
Yeah, remember the statue dream?
How many metals were in the statue dream?
How many?
Four.
Four.
Okay, Four metals.
And Babylon was the gold head. Right. Nebuchadnezzar.
How many beasts have we got?
4. So there is already a very strong connection between these two.
Which means there is an important point here.
We don't need to jump in and assume that Daniel's beasts only represent Britain, America, Russia and the European Union. We don't need to do that.
That is kind of like headline driven prophetic interpretation that scaremongers more than it helps and ignores the original context.
There's so much in Daniel that's pointing us towards more of an historical fulfillment.
You see, Daniel sees these beasts, four beasts rising from the sea. And you know what sea means in the Bible? Normally, chaos, absolute chaos, because it is deep and dark and bad stuff happens there.
So there's no surprise that these awful beasts come out from the sea. And the first one is, well, this lion with wings like an eagle.
Well, it's interesting to note that the lion was kind of a symbol of the Babylonian power. Even Jeremiah the prophet calls Nebuchadnezzar a lion.
Well, so what about these wings then?
Well, the beast has these wings plucked off him and he's made to stand like a human.
And if you look at Daniel 4, you realize Nebuchadnezzar is humbled by God. Something like feathers grow. I think they describe his hair growing like that, like claws, like a bird or an eagle. And then he is restored to his right human mind.
So you've got all these clues only in the book of Daniel, which is telling us essentially like gold equals Babylon, lion and eagle equal Babylon. Yeah.
So then you end up with the second beast, which is this ravaging bear leaning up onto one side, which implies there might be two sides to this bear. Very similar to the Medo Persian empire that comes with afterwards.
And actually why is one side up? Possibly because I think the Persian side was stronger than the Medo side.
What about the third one then you've got this slightly bizarre leopardy kind of winged animal beast. Right. And this is traditionally. Well, maybe it's the next empire. That's how it's traditionally understood. And this was the Greek empire.
Do you know who ran the Greek empire?
Alexander the Great.
Now what does it mean?
Well, it could be that the four wings represent the speed in which Alexander the Great conquered the Medo Persians, because it happened so fast.
And what about the four heads?
Again, in traditional Christian theology, it's understood that at the end of Alexander's reign, there wasn't an heir to take it on. So the Greek Empire was divided into four different divisions.
So that kind of makes sense that, well, this beast is the Greek Empire.
Now then comes the fourth beast and Daniel is really struggling to describe the beast. It's terrifying, it's powerful, it's destructive, it's got iron teeth and it crushes everything in his path.
What do you think the iron teeth could be a connection?
You've got the iron legs from the statue, you've got the iron teeth. And also, if that means it's Rome, does it fit the description? Well, the Roman Empire was more terrifying and it was more powerful and it did stretch further than any other empire before it.
So I think looking at this, and we talk about this sort of stuff as elders, what do we really think it means?
And actually, we've gone now. We think this means these historical empires.
And I think that says God knows what's going to happen, but does it mean that Daniel 7 is fulfilled by these four empires and that's the end of it? We can all go home.
What?
We don't think so, because the world hasn't ended and there's still a lot of horrific empires out there still ruling and reigning. Don't you see them?
Yeah, you see, when you're reading apocalyptic literature across the Bible, you get historical fulfillment. That's the point. God wants to demonstrate to that generation and the ones to come that he is across history.
But you also see patterns reappear.
And I wonder if some of you who really know your Bibles, something's clicked today.
Because if you've. I mean, you're brave if you do Revelation, we have a series online somewhere about it. But Revelation, as I say, is another apocalyptic book. And John sees a vision in there.
And guess what it is. A beast coming out of the what? The sea. There you go. And what does it look like? Well, it too has 10 horns.
And guess what animals it looks like. This one beast looks a bit like a leopard, a bear and a lion.
It's almost as if Daniel's four beasts have kind of merged into one megabeast, which means, yeah, Daniel's beasts, they are fulfilled in history, but they're also representative of a kind of type, a type of king, a type of empire, a type of beast that represents what happens when human power becomes most destructive.
Power that kind of rejects God, exalts itself and tramples on the very people that it's supposed to serve.
And, hey, the Beasts change their appearance, they always do. But the pattern of beastly power continues. And never in isolation from the power of Satan that's behind them.
But God reminds us that none of them, none of them are ultimate because they are not on the throne. The throne is already occupied and it is blazing with fire.
That's this image from Daniel. Because Daniel, he's looking at this vision and suddenly everything changes.
And you get the ancient of days, God on his throne, books open and judgment towards the beasts is happening.
And you know what I think, Church? This should give us enormous confidence because God is going to judge the beasts of this world. The evil empires who bring nothing but destruction and injustice. Amen. God, I'm looking at the victory. It is wonderful. It is good news. And no matter what suffering we face in this life, God, God will bring justice. Amen.
But we've also got an uncomfortable problem.
You see, it's super easy to read Daniel 7 and well Focus on the beasts out there, right? The dictators and the tyrants. They're the ones God wants to get.
But what happens when the same instincts that makes those kingdoms beastly are present in me?
Has anyone ever told you you can be a bit beastly?
Yeah, I've heard it a few times.
We're all a little bit beastly, aren't we? At times I think it's pretty common. And you know what? I think these kingdoms are a picture of something else, which is really what happens when any person rejects God's rule and decides to live for themselves. We're very self oriented creatures. So it's not just a dictator problem over an empire. It's a human problem for everyone on Earth.
We want it our way.
You know, we want power, but probably without the accountability. Thanks. You know, we do want authority, but I don't really want any of the responsibility that goes with it.
And here's the potentially very uncomfortable bit.
You know, one day we are all going to stand before God and receive judgment for how we've used the power that we've been given, every single one of us.
Daniel sees this court assembled and the books are opened. And again, hop to Revelation 20 and it kind of fills in the detail of Daniel's picture some more because it tells us that people are judged according to what they've done, particularly how they've treated others. And anyone whose name isn't found in the Book of Life is thrown into the lake of fire.
I don't know how that makes you feel, but certainly the thought of my life being laid completely bare every thought. Every action, every word that I've ever done or said laid out before God is absolutely horrifying.
But I think it's supposed to be.
But I think we're supposed to see that even we in our very best can still be beastly.
So where does the beast come out of you?
You know, for me, it's when I am tired and stressed.
It's like this beast has just been dormant around here and all of a sudden someone comes into my world and it's like the beast wants to jump out of my mouth and bring some judgment of my own. Do you know what I mean?
I can be harshest to those that I love the most. How is that possible?
I can be deeply impatient to my work colleagues.
Do you see any of this in your own life?
Yeah. What do you like when you're on your own and no one else is watching and you feel a bit stressed or annoyed at something?
What about if somebody challenges something that you highly value, but you really shouldn't value it? How do you react then?
We all have a war going on inside us. And Paul talks about it in Galatians. And again, it helps us understand what Daniel's talking about. He says, look, the flesh desires or our beastly selves.
They desire what is contrary to the spirit and the spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other. So we've got to fight within us.
So what can we do about it?
Well, I think there is so much hope in the rest of Daniel and what we've read because the Son of Man didn't just come to save us from the beasts out there, he's come to save us from the beasts in here. Amen.
All of us have a God given personality, right? And who's done a personality test?
Has anyone heard of Myers Briggs?
Forgive me if you don't know what they are, but I'm about to reveal to you what Myers Briggs thinks I am. Are you ready?
And it's not the final word on who I am, by the way, but it does help me understand my natural wiring.
So I am an estj.
I'm extroverted, sensing, thinking and judging. It's not good. So my strengths? Good news guys. I'm organized, decisive, and I might have some leadership skills. Woo.
Come on.
No one supported me there.
It's because, you know, I've got weaknesses, I'm inflexible, I'm controlling and apparently I can be very insensitive.
I'm so sorry, that's not what you want to read Trying to be a pastor, is it?
So is this my lot? Am I stuck here? Is this who I am? No. No.
Thank you. Thank you, the rest of you.
Yeah, Susie is my. What a cheerleader. Thank you. It is not who I am. And you know what? If yours was up here, it's not exactly who you are either. Because we have a personality and a natural wiring within us, but we also have a character that can be shaped by God.
So if our personality is how I'm wired, our character is how I use that wiring.
It kind of gives us this filter system by which these natural strengths can be harnessed.
So if I reflect on myself, hey, my decisiveness, maybe according to this, can become beastly and domineering or shaped by Jesus. It can look a bit more like courage or being direct. Means I know I can be insensitive at times and I am working hard on it.
But actually what I need to do is let Jesus work hard on it because then it becomes honesty with grace and strong leadership like we've seen with these beasts can look a lot like trampling and controlling or shaped by Jesus can become servant heartedness.
I don't know what yours would be here, but that's the sort of journey Jesus wants to take us all on. Because he wants to take every good thing that he's put inside of you and release the grip of the be beast on it.
Which finally brings us to the most important person of this vision, which is the Son of Man.
The Son of Man is this title that Jesus gave himself over 80 times across the gospel. In fact, I don't think there's a name he gives himself more than the Son of Man.
And he's on trial when he refers to it. And the Jewish leaders, they're looking at him and saying, you the Messiah, Jesus.
And he says, look, you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.
I want you to think about the irony of that situation. They think Jesus is in their court, but one day, oh, they're going to be in his.
And this is the astonishing claim at the heart of this dream. It's the astonishing truth at the heart of Christianity, which Jesus is not just some good teacher that helps us live better lives.
He's the King of everything.
And the greatest mistake we can ever make is to fail to recognize it and live that out.
You see, he's the best king.
We couldn't invent a better king. And I just want to finish by just drawing some contrasts as we close.
You see beastly people, they crush others to establish their kingdom.
But Jesus lays down his life for others in order to establish his kingdom.
Jesus doesn't defeat beasts by becoming an even bigger beast. He becomes a lamb.
Jesus doesn't seize power like the beasts and lose it forever.
Now Jesus gives up his power to receive it forever.
And you know what?
Beasts deserve death for what they've done.
But Jesus died in their place. So even beastly people can receive life everlasting.
Isn't that extraordinary?
That is the good news of the gospel.
And you know, as Jesus ascended to heaven the first time the Son of Man, his kingdom rule began. That's what we can kind of see in Daniel. But there's also another part of the Daniel story which is, well, the king is going to return and his kingdom will be final and forever.
And do you know what?
He's going to have his books with him, the Lamb's Book of Life. And we can have our names written in it.
Not because you're good enough or not because you've overcome every beastly desire.
No, we are saved only by accepting the totally outrageous, undeserved, unmerited grace of Jesus Christ.
And you know, you are saved every single day as you submit to God's rule in your life and you help, you ask him to help you resist what's going on in here. And you say, holy Spirit, make me more like Jesus. I want to be like my king.
Maybe the band want to come back up. Is that right? Thank you.
But I want to say, even that's not the end of the story.
There is something even more amazing. You see, the court sits and the ultimate beasts are destroyed.
And then Daniel says this. He says, look, the Most High's kingdom is going to be an everlasting kingdom.
But then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven are going to be handed to who?
The most holy people of the Most High.
Who are the holy people?
We are.
You are.
I just want us to see. This isn't about living a better life now.
This is about Jesus getting you ready for what you are needed for in the future.
And I don't think we think about it very often. We think about our own kingdom now and maybe how God is asking us to be used in his kingdom now. But what about that one?
This one's going to be about that long.
The other one is immeasurably long.
And he's asking us to get ready. Please stand.
So, Church, I'm going to pray for us. Really? Quickly. But I just want to stir you to dwell on this this week. And I'll encourage you to get ready.
You know, give. It starts by giving way to the king now.
And how many times as Christians have we given away to the king, but we've grabbed it back again?
I just want to say, give way to his kingdom again and give up on your own again.
And where you still need him, through his holy Spirit to crush beastly desires that are still in here.
Welcome him in even as we worship, because he's the only one who can forgive you and he's the only one that can change you.
So, Jesus, that's our prayer. Forgive us and change us.
Forgive us and change us.
We are sorry, Lord, but we recognize who you are, King of kings, ruling and reigning even now. And we can't wait until you come back again.
And when we see you face to face, we don't need to be fearful because we know our names can be written down.
We know that we can pass by your right hand. We know that you will say over us, good and faithful servant, because you control all things and you're in charge.
But until that day, Lord, would you help us become more like you? Would you release the grip we've got on our own kingdoms?
Would you release us from these beastly feelings we have? And would you bring home holiness and purity and mercy into our lives? Afresh, we pray.
Amen.
