Episode Transcript
[00:00:12] Speaker A: Can you hear me?
[00:00:12] Speaker B: All right? I don't know if you can.
[00:00:14] Speaker A: Hello?
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Hello? Can you hear me? Yeah. Great. Well done, Deb.
[00:00:18] Speaker A: If I was doing that video, I would have done the old person thing of taking a photo.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: Do you know what I mean? You do that. You think you've captioned the video and you've completely failed miserably.
So that's exciting. Bless you guys as you go out. Right. I'm excited today because we are on a new series. Have we got a graphic that we can bring up?
There you go. The Book of Daniel.
You guys heard of it?
Yes, we have heard of it. It's an absolute classic. But it isn't all about hungry lions and hot ovens. Right there. There is more to Daniel than we might remember from our Sunday school stories.
And one thing that I'm really excited about today is that we get off to a good start by meeting Daniel the author and his three friends.
And their story begins when they are teenagers.
So you need to have in your head GCSE students. And if you do, you've kind of got the right idea.
And at this time, Babylon is the superpower, right? And they are steamrolling their way across nation after nation. And Judah, God's people, they're next.
And they roll into Jerusalem, the capital, seize it, destroy it. Their homes are gone, and these young guys are taken into captivity 900 miles
[00:01:47] Speaker A: away to Babylon, which is like modern day Iraq.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: That's pretty hard to imagine, isn't it? Yeah, it's a little bit like Dartford or Gravesend being invaded and our teenagers kidnapped and dragged 900 miles away. It's hard to get your head around, isn't it?
I had a quick look where 900
[00:02:07] Speaker A: miles away from here was, and I
[00:02:10] Speaker B: discovered that it would be Monaco or Switzerland, which is very different to Babylon, right?
So maybe it's not all that bad, but. But guys, they were thrown in the deep end, right? The very deep end. Captured, thrown into Babylon. That is a different nation, a different culture, different rules, different values and different gods.
And yet when we open up, Daniel,
[00:02:38] Speaker A: we realize they don't just survive, they
[00:02:40] Speaker B: thrive because they were placed into that culture and they engaged with that culture, even influenced that culture.
And even though that culture was utterly against their faith, they wanted to extinguish it.
[00:02:55] Speaker A: Hey, they kept their Nerf.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: And that is because these guys had something that is completely missing or undervalued in our culture, which is character and conviction.
Say it with me. Character and conviction.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: Stick that in your head, you're going to need it later.
[00:03:15] Speaker B: So you've got these exiles.
[00:03:17] Speaker A: We're going to keep an eye on them.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: And I don't want to over egg this, but I think in some sense we too are exiles because we don't live in a completely Christian nation, do we? It's not like we live in sort of inadverted commas, Jerusalem surrounded by just temples to Yahweh. You know, in fact, we live in a culture that likes to remind us that our God and his Bible really doesn't have a place anymore in our culture.
Have you heard that before? Yeah. So in a sense we are also like exiles in our own Babylon.
So they're the first group, exiles. The second one are these empires and their emperors. We are going through Daniel and we're going to see the Babylonian kings, we're going to see Medo, Persian rulers as well. And we're going to find out what make these tyrants tickets.
But lastly, we're going to meet the real hero of the story.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: And it's not Daniel, it is Yahweh, the Lord Almighty, the eternal king.
[00:04:19] Speaker B: And what we're going to find is that his control isn't just over this period of Babylon, but it stretches right out to many other empires until he calls time on this world and ushers in a completely different time, totally eternal kingdom.
So what we're going to see is we're going to transition from stories into prophetic literature. Almost apostolic.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: Not apostolic, sorry,
[00:04:53] Speaker B: apocalyptic.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: Apocalyptic. Hard to get my words out, apocalyptic. Which means it's going to be about the future. And it is incredibly, incredibly accurate.
You feeling it yet?
Yeah, a little bit. Right, let's get into a bit of the first scripture then. So in the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim, King of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar,
[00:05:17] Speaker A: King of Babylon, came to Jerusalem and besieged it.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: And the Lord delivered Jehoiakim, King of Judah into his hand, along with some of the articles from the Temple of God. And these he carried off to the temple of his God in Babylonia and put in the treasure house of his. His God.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: What do you make of that?
[00:05:40] Speaker B: Well, British Museum. Who's been there?
Yeah, a few people. Well, if you go to the British Museum, you're going to see this.
This is actually a tablet. It just looks a bit different than us.
Right. And this tablet is called the Babylonian Chronicle.
And when they put it back together again, they realize it tells the story of all of Babylon's conquests, particularly the military one.
And it confirms that in 597 A.D, nebuchadnezzar's army invaded and captured Jerusalem exactly
[00:06:19] Speaker A: the same time that Daniel says it happens.
Yeah.
[00:06:25] Speaker B: I don't know if you've heard of
[00:06:26] Speaker A: the skeptics saying the Bible's a whole load of rubbish, but the Bible is about real history, real people, and real places, isn't it?
[00:06:34] Speaker B: And both Daniel and this chronicle say that this invasion was a whitewash.
Okay. Jerusalem got battered, and Nebuchadnezzar even took the treasures from God's temple and put them in the temple of his own Babylonian gods.
Do you find that a bit offensive?
A little bit. It's actually outrageous. But this is like stealing the other team's mascot and dragging it back to
[00:07:03] Speaker A: your college or uni.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: And it's supposed to be offensive. It's a little bit like saying, well, who conquered who, eh?
Whose treasures are in whose temples now?
But Nebuchadnezzar is saying that your gods, Judah, he's a loser.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: Does that sound offensive now?
Yeah, it's quite offensive.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: But Daniel says something that changes our understanding of what's just happened. I don't know if you saw it, but it says that the Lord delivered Jehoiakim, King of Judah, into Nebuchadnezzar's hands.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: Right.
Daniel isn't just giving us history, he's interpreting history. And he's saying, guys, don't panic.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: What it looks like isn't actually what's happening. Like, Babylon may have won the battle, but God has not lost control. The exile is, in fact, God's idea.
[00:08:08] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:08:10] Speaker B: So why would God allow Babylon to run into his city and steal his people?
[00:08:18] Speaker A: Well, actually, we heard it in Moses prayer earlier on.
Oh, Lord, may we not be like the Israelite children who, when it was good, praise God and when it got tricky, ignored him. In fact, they went a lot, a lot worse.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: They ended up not just rebelling against God and rejecting God, but they worshiped other idols and gods to the point that God kept warning them again and again and again, with prophets coming, saying, guys, turn around.
And instead, God brought judgment on his own people
[00:08:50] Speaker A: and gave them into exile.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: But as judgment means one thing, it certainly doesn't mean abandonment.
I think the best way to think about it is like a father disciplining their own children with an eye on restoration in the future. And we've got to remember, Daniel is seriously impacted by this decision of God, yet he's the one waving the flags for Yahweh, saying he. He is still in control.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Don't panic.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: So you might see some stuff in Daniel and think, what's God up to?
[00:09:21] Speaker A: He's got a plan.
Okay, let's move on to verse three.
[00:09:28] Speaker B: It says, then the king ordered Ashpenaz, chief of his court officials, to bring in to the king's service some of the Israelites from the royal family and the nobility.
Young men without any physical defect, handsome, showing aptitude for every kind of learning, well informed, quick to understand, and qualified to serve in the king's palace. I wouldn't have made the cut.
So Nebuchadnezzar doesn't just take things from
[00:09:59] Speaker A: the temple and these treasures, but he
[00:10:03] Speaker B: actually takes the treasures of the kingdom as well.
The youngest, the brightest, and the best.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: And we're about to meet Daniel and his friends.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: But there's something that I think is really important to know before we crack on, which is that the Babylonians, they rose to world power by defeating the Assyrians. And I want to tell you about
[00:10:25] Speaker A: how they differ, because they're very different. Right.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: These are the Assyrians.
Right? When they conquered a city, they were brutal.
They would smash their way into the city, pillage it, rape the women, make slaves of the children, and they would skin or flay the men alive.
[00:10:47] Speaker A: Sorry if that makes you sick, but
[00:10:48] Speaker B: this is actually a picture of them doing this about 100 years before to
[00:10:55] Speaker A: God's people as they came into Jerusalem.
They're a nice bunch of guys.
[00:11:01] Speaker B: And what they would do is they would then drag you away by putting a hook in your nose and stringing you all together as they forced you to. To where they were then going to hold you captive.
That is the brutal Assyrians.
Yeah, nice.
The Babylonians, not the same.
They could be brutal, but once they had conquered, they changed tack.
They would employ alluring tactics to absorb
[00:11:31] Speaker A: you into their culture.
[00:11:34] Speaker B: They would take you captive, but they
[00:11:35] Speaker A: wouldn't put a hook in your nose.
[00:11:38] Speaker B: Instead, they would lead you to the ancient city of Babylon, where you would be enamored by its beauty.
So I want you to imagine now that Daniel and his friends are going on this big, long journey for two months through the dusty desert, and all of a sudden, what rises out of the ground is this.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: Babylon.
This city was amazing.
Had walls 300ft high and 80ft thick, and it had the mighty Euphrates river running through it. And the centerpiece, what would it be? The Hanging Garden of Babylon. That's one of the ancient seven Wonders of the World.
Right. This would have been like walking into the Magic Kingdom at Disney World.
Right.
Seriously, they would have walked in and went, this Isn't so bad.
It's all right. And the Babylonians would have said, oh, yeah, come in, come in, come in. Hey, why don't you have some of our food?
Why don't you have a home? Why don't you raise a family here? And, hey, you could even worship with us, too.
And before long, you may not have
[00:12:54] Speaker A: had a hook in your nose, but you would have become just like them.
[00:13:02] Speaker B: So what Daniel goes on to say is, guys, this is how the Babylonians
[00:13:06] Speaker A: try to get us.
And I'm just going to touch on
[00:13:09] Speaker B: four things that I think Daniel one tells us were the tactics of this Babylonian nation, trying to allure them into the culture. And I think we see they used isolation, indoctrination, identification, and seduction. And guys, if we're also in a type of Babylon, I think these have
[00:13:29] Speaker A: got some lessons for us too.
[00:13:32] Speaker B: So firstly, we've read a little bit about isolation.
So isolation, taking someone away from everything they've ever known is quite a change. That means your family is gone, your community believing in your God has gone.
Your traditions, even your language, even your dress has gone.
And that can really help you if you're Babylon, because if you can isolate somebody from the thing that shaped who
[00:14:02] Speaker A: they are, well, then you're really easy to mold.
But we'll see.
[00:14:10] Speaker B: When these guys were isolated from Jerusalem,
[00:14:14] Speaker A: well, they didn't forget who they were,
[00:14:17] Speaker B: and that must have come from somewhere. How did they not forget who they were?
Who would have put that stuff into them?
I think it would have probably been their family, right?
Yeah, their community, a bit like this one. That's why community is so important. They would have prayed for them, and they must have been putting character and
[00:14:41] Speaker A: conviction into these guys.
[00:14:46] Speaker B: Does that make you think of our young people?
[00:14:48] Speaker A: A bit? Yeah.
[00:14:50] Speaker B: What are we putting into them? What is God asking us to do in terms of lay a foundation in their lives? I think he wants to stir us, to make sure that we can get them ready so that when they step out into Babylon, they have character and
[00:15:09] Speaker A: conviction to stand up and know who they are.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: And I think this is really, really,
[00:15:15] Speaker A: really important because today's convictions, well, they determine how you handle tomorrow's temptations.
And this is true for all of us. Right.
[00:15:28] Speaker B: If you think you're going to swan
[00:15:30] Speaker A: through life without temptation, well, you're the biggest fool in the room.
What are your convictions today?
Like, what are the things that you really, really, really value that you stand on?
Because when temptation comes and it's guaranteed, right, Your convictions and your character need to Be ready.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: I think this is like the big
[00:15:57] Speaker A: question of Daniel 1, because, hey, we're
[00:16:00] Speaker B: going to get knocked off course if
[00:16:02] Speaker A: we don't have this one, right? And I would say God has got loads in store for your life, great plans.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: And he's got great plans for this church. And God needs people of character and conviction. I think Karen prayed, what does it mean to have faith in God?
[00:16:17] Speaker A: Or it's obedience. That's his love language. I think she said character and conviction is where it all comes back to.
[00:16:25] Speaker B: So isolation didn't really work on these guys, so they cranked it up a bit. And secondly, these Babylonians used indoctrination.
It says that he, this is the chief of the king's officials.
Well, he was told to teach them
[00:16:41] Speaker A: the language and the literature of the Babylonians.
[00:16:45] Speaker B: So Hebrew school is gone and these guys were forced to learn a different language, different customs and hey, Babylon's version of history.
Because again, if you can change what
[00:16:57] Speaker A: somebody believes, then you can start to control how they live.
There is somebody dangerously famous in history who understood the power of propaganda.
And it was this monster in his visionary book, Mein Kampf, he says, through clever and constant application of propaganda, people
[00:17:23] Speaker B: can be made to see that paradise as hell. And also the other way round.
You see, Babylon was hell.
It just looked a lot like paradise.
[00:17:39] Speaker A: And I think sometimes we struggle to tell the difference as well.
We do live in a world full of lies and clickbait and deep fakes and claims, don't we?
[00:17:51] Speaker B: Who do you listen to? Who do you trust? Do you reject anyone who's on your
[00:17:57] Speaker A: sort of black list and who's on your white list?
But the thing is, Daniel and his
[00:18:05] Speaker B: friends were utterly indoctrinated into the middle of Babylon, yet.
Yet they didn't crack because God's voice was louder.
How was it louder? Because they prioritized time with God. They prioritized prayer, as we'll go on to read in subsequent weeks. They prioritized His Word. The voice of God was more important than anything else in their life. And let me say church, I think
[00:18:30] Speaker A: that's the same for us.
The most powerful offensive strategy is to prioritize God above everyone and everything else in our lives. That is how character and convictions get forged within us.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: So indoctrination didn't seem to work that
[00:18:53] Speaker A: well with these guys.
[00:18:54] Speaker B: So they moved on to identification.
Verse 6 says, among those who were chosen, there were some from Judah. It was Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah. And the chief official gave them new names.
To Daniel, the name Belteshazzar, to Hananiah Shadrach, to Mishael Meshach and to Azariah Abednego.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: And you can see here the comparison of the meanings.
[00:19:24] Speaker B: I just want to underline what they
[00:19:26] Speaker A: were trying to do.
[00:19:26] Speaker B: They were stripping them of their Jewish meaning and they were importing and impressing
[00:19:32] Speaker A: upon them a new identity which was Babylonian.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: So you go from Daniel, which is God is my judge, to Belteshazzar, which is Bell's prince. Or it's another name for the Babylonian God Marduk, Hananiah, beloved by Yahweh. What a name.
Yet Shadrach is illuminated by the sun God Mishael, who is as God. What a testimony. But it gets stripped and it's Meshach, who is like Venus.
And then last Azariah, the Lord is my help.
[00:20:07] Speaker A: To Abednego, the servant of Naboo, again, just another Babylonian God.
The message is so simple. Over these guys, it's you aren't those people anymore.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: You don't belong to that God anymore. Your God is a loser.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: You're one of us now.
That's crazy manipulative, isn't it?
Yet these name changes don't seem to worry these guys.
He even refers to himself as his
[00:20:46] Speaker B: Babylonian name later in the book.
So nothing is suggesting that even his convictions are being challenged.
[00:20:53] Speaker A: Yet.
[00:20:54] Speaker B: I find that really interesting. So they go to level four, they go to seduction, right?
Who can stand against seduction? It says the king assigned them a daily amount of food and wine from the king's table.
The king's table. How good is that food gonna be?
It's gonna be like eating in a Michelin star restaurant every single day. And you gotta remember, these guys are teenagers and mum and dad aren't around, right? Which 15 year old do you know that's gonna say no to a bottomless buffet and a free bar, right? Not many. Not many.
But Daniel does.
He says, but Daniel resolved not to defile himself with the royal food and wine. And he asked the chief official for permission not to defile himself in that way.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: I think this is really fascinating.
[00:21:53] Speaker B: This is the first time we see
[00:21:55] Speaker A: Daniel draw a line and he starts
[00:21:58] Speaker B: to push back because they tried to isolate him. And he said, you know what? I know who I am, that won't defile me. And they've tried to indoctrinate him with new beliefs. And he says, yeah, but I know
[00:22:12] Speaker A: who God says I am that won't defile me.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: They've tried to change the identity, but he's Like, I know who I am. I know what I believe you. You can't defile me that way.
But as soon as they offer him
[00:22:28] Speaker A: something that goes against something that his king has said no to, he draws a line and says no.
What wisdom, what character, what conviction.
No doubt this food has been offered to idols.
[00:22:45] Speaker B: No doubt this is not kosher food. Not just because there's probably lots of bacon there, but even in the way it's been prepared, God had very strict food to set his people apart. It was almost part of their worship. Their identity was wrapped up in what they put in their bodies.
And the thing that I want us
[00:23:06] Speaker A: to see is this isn't a tough decision for Daniel.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: He made up his mind long before
[00:23:13] Speaker A: he stared at the feasts.
And you know what? I think he could have caved for a whole bunch of different reasons.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: I think he could have said that I can't reject the king because the
[00:23:26] Speaker A: king has assigned them a daily amount.
[00:23:29] Speaker B: What's he going to do to me?
[00:23:31] Speaker A: This could affect my career in his kingdom. You ever thought that?
Yeah.
[00:23:36] Speaker B: Or what about if I stand out? I don't want to be the only one saying no to something. And what if I get punished? I've heard he's got lions and a very hot oven that he likes to use.
[00:23:50] Speaker A: But Daniel has already decided.
And that's because today's convictions determine how you handle tomorrow's temptations.
You mustn't be in a situation where you're working out what you believe when you're being tempted.
It will never work.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: You have to decide beforehand.
[00:24:10] Speaker A: This is who I am. This is how I. I'm going to live, and this is who I belong to.
And I think the way Daniel handles this is extraordinary.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: He's not running in there shouting, you heathens, you're going to hell. Does he?
[00:24:31] Speaker A: He's not sort of hostile and holy towards them.
He just says, guys, I'm not going to partake.
I'm not going to partake.
Is that okay?
And the thing is, he handles himself in such a way that it gives room for God to bless his decisions, to bless his convictions.
[00:24:55] Speaker B: And if you read on, what happens is the king's aide gets a bit stressed, thinking these guys are just going to basically rot and starve. But instead, the opposite happens. And after 10 days, these guys look absolutely buff.
I think this is one of the first miracles in Daniel, because who do you know that can eat a vegetarian diet and bulk up?
It's impossible. This is supernatural.
So all the other guys, you know, cracking on with their steaks, get them taken away, and they have to eat vegetables.
[00:25:29] Speaker A: But God's doing something supernatural here.
He's doing something supernatural.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: And, you know, you get to the end of the chapter, and Nebuchadnezzar is absolutely amazed. It says that in every matter of wisdom and understanding which he questioned these guys about, he found them 10 times better than all the magicians and all the enchanters in his whole kingdom.
[00:25:56] Speaker A: Coming into Lana, right? Maybe the bank could come back up. Actually, here's the big point. I want you to understand that their conviction to please God outweighed the temptation to please men.
And God blessed it.
[00:26:17] Speaker B: They didn't become irrelevant for being faithful. They actually became influential.
[00:26:22] Speaker A: And Babylon, they didn't lose respect through their convictions.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: They actually gained responsibility. These are guys that I can trust because God's wanted them right at the heart of Babylon. And that's the picture I want you to go out with. If you don't work for the house of God, literally, then you are essentially stepping out as an exile into Babylon. And I want you to know God
[00:26:49] Speaker A: wants you to go with his blessing
[00:26:51] Speaker B: and his vision for what you're called there to. We're not supposed to withdraw from the world or hide from the world.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: We're there to influence the world with
[00:26:59] Speaker B: godly character and conviction because it would be to their blessing.
So I just want to ask you
[00:27:07] Speaker A: this morning, where is God highlighting to you about your convictions?
You know, what line is there in your life that needs to be much
[00:27:19] Speaker B: more of a hard line where you
[00:27:21] Speaker A: need to stop crossing in order for God to work on your character?
[00:27:28] Speaker B: And it's normally a really pleasurable line,
[00:27:30] Speaker A: like a king's feast, but God said no to it.
And I think it's really faith building to know that God knows what it is to be in this position.
I think of Jesus in the desert fasting for 40 days, and Satan comes
[00:27:45] Speaker B: up to him, and what's the first thing he tries to do?
[00:27:50] Speaker A: Seduce him.
Hey, if you're the son of God, tell these stones to become bread.
But Jesus, as quick as a flash, responds with, but it is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. Amen.
Jesus had been feeding on God's presence and his words for 40 days. So when temptation came, his convictions went into autopilot.
[00:28:18] Speaker B: He didn't have to make a decision.
[00:28:19] Speaker A: He just went, well, that's not who I am.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: And it was the same for Daniel and his friends. And I want to say, it can Be the same for us, too. It can be the same for you, but you might wake up in the morning and your first thought is, I'm
[00:28:31] Speaker A: just gonna look at something seductive, whatever that might be.
But that's not who I am. God has set me apart as holy.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: Or you're tempted to get rid of revenge on someone, but that is not who I am.
God has called me to be a peacemaker.
Or you're tempted to hoard wealth because, hey, that's what everyone else in Babylon does.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: But that's not who I am, because God is my provider, and he has asked me to give him his first fruits.
And he will bless it.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: Satan.
Satan wants to chip us up in
[00:29:14] Speaker A: the valleys, but God has called us to be a city on a hill. Yeah, wherever you're called to go, a city on a hill.
[00:29:23] Speaker B: So as you go out this week, I just want to say over us that we would know that, hey, we may live in Babylon, but Babylon does
[00:29:32] Speaker A: not have to live in us.
Yeah.
And I just want to invite you to stand with me because I want to pray together.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: Because you might be thinking, man, there's a bit of Babylon in me.
How did it get there?
How did I compromise to this point?
But I want to be different.
And I think when the disciples asked
[00:29:54] Speaker A: Jesus, lord, teach us how to pray,
[00:29:56] Speaker B: he had all of this in his mind.
[00:29:57] Speaker A: And he says, I'm going to give you the ultimate reset.
[00:30:00] Speaker B: Not just how to speak to your
[00:30:02] Speaker A: God as father, but how to be changed through prayer. And I just want us to pray the Lord's Prayer.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: These words talk about the king that
[00:30:13] Speaker A: we serve and the kingdom we actually come from.
[00:30:17] Speaker B: It talks about the real food that we need each day. And it talks about the fresh forgiveness and mercy when our characters and our
[00:30:27] Speaker A: convictions let us down.
And ultimately, it invites us to declare that we want to see his kingdom come more than any other.
Should we pray?
Yeah. I just want to give 30 seconds of silence just for you to do business with God.
We'll just worship in just a second, but let's just be silent before him. Confess what you have to confess.
Bring before him your heart.
Why don't we pray together?
Our father in heaven, hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
And give us today our daily bread and forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us. Us.
Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
For yours is the kingdom, the power,
[00:31:57] Speaker B: and the glory forever and ever. And the church said, amen.
[00:32:06] Speaker A: Let's just worship to finish.